If Zarqawi is captured, that would NOT be good news for liberals, because that would drive up Bush's poll numbers!

But like it has been said before: good news for America, is bad news for liberals.

David, I don't have time right now to read your post (but I will), but responding to your headline:

"Would Zarqawi's Death Help Bush--Or Not?"

Well, if Rove has it gamed that it would help, Zarqawi is dead. But, hasn't he been *dead* way more than once already? I forget. Whatever.

How many times can that guy be captured or killed? Gullible people like Tim L believe everything they hear on TV, even if it's a rerun! Z is dead and so is Osama, get over it tim!

Saladin, you believe every website you read! But the thing is Saladin, ANYBODY can make a website and say what they want, and any stupid person like you can believe them.

Mr. David Corn,

Great post, very good insights and perspective.

Poll numbers will bottom out, they cannot get much lower. It will never be able to un-connect the dots that have been connected by the 7 of 10 Americans. If they got the boogeyman, they will have to invent another.

"Getting" OBL will not reverse the lies, errors, etc. of this misadministration.

Thanks for all of your work.

Kirk

Zarqawi's been "dead" so often he oughta be a comic book character. If he is dead or captured, nothing will change because a score of others will jump up to take his place. No rebel is indispensable to the rebellion. Would killing Ho Chi Minh have stopped the North Vietnamese from fighting? To the Iraqi rebels, as to the Vietnamese before them, they are the Patriots, we're the Redcoats, and the natives who side with us are the Tories. Radical Islam, like Communism before it, merely provides a rhetorical framework for the actual passion, which is plain old nationalism, tribalism even, "us good, them bad"."Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was..."

Feeling my lifetime piling up, Ivory Bill Woodpecker

How convenient that Z might be dead -- again

Bush said in China :

"I am confident we will succeed in Iraq. I'm confident that the Iraqi forces will be trained; I am confident the political process will slowly, but surely, marginalize those that are trying to stop the march of democracy. And I also know that we have got to make sure that Iraq does not become a safe haven for terrorists. It's very important for -- during this debate to listen to the words of Zawahiri, who's the number-two man of al Qaeda, where he has made it very clear that his intention, and the intention of his henchman, Zarqawi, is to drive us out of Iraq before we have completed the mission."

tim, you have no idea what I read, calling me stupid does not prove your point. Show me the evidence that these boogeymen are alive and caused any of the harm that is blamed on them. I will show proof that the opposite is true.

I wonder how many times Doofus Maximus had to kowtow to his Chinese creditors, lest they smash our country's economy by calling in our debts to them. Thanks to the monumentally irresponsible and asinine fiscal policies of modern "conservatism", the Middle Kingdom owns our genitals now, and not in any happy fun way, either. We are all Ned Beatty now.

Squealing louder, Ivory Bill Woodpecker

Ivory Bill, the Iraqi rebels just want the invaders to get out of their country. Just like we wanted England to get out of ours back in the day. They want us out, we want us out, so, what the hell are we still doing there? I guess this is democracy, Amerikan style!

February 09, 2004
Panetta Said Bush Did Not Lie About Intel

Leon E. Panetta appearing on C-SPAN's Washington Journal this Monday morning ( 10-28-03 8:20 AM EST ) said that he was in the White House and that President Clinton received the same intelligence information about the danger of Iraq's WMD's as President Bush did. He believes that President Clinton did what he thought was best and that President Bush did what he thought was best. Panetta was responding to a caller about the Iraq situation. He stated that either there was a massive intelligence failure or the intelligence community was lied to or both.

Panetta is a former Democratic congressman, the former Clinton White House Director of OMB, and Clinton's former Chief of Staff. He is saying that Bush was not lying and that there is no Neocon/Zionist conspiracy.

He joins many other moderate Democrats, foreign policy experts, and Nobel Peace laureates who have maintained that Iraq possessed WMD's and the potential to use them. Despite what liberal Democrats, liberal journalists, communists, anti-Americans and other Bush haters have been claiming, President Bush was not lying.

Panetta reiterated what he said in February, " I think that Saddam Hussein is a threat in that part of the world. I think that, indeed, he should be required to disarm in fulfillment of the UN resolutions and also because for years we have basically known that he's had weapons of mass destruction. (link)

He also reiterated what many people in the Clinton administration said during their term and since. People like Madeline Albright who, in November 1999, said, "Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." Or Clinton's National Security Adviser Sandy Berger who said in Feburary 1998, "He (Saddam Hussein) will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."

IB, now you are speaking a language the poor trolls will never understand. We are doing GREAT! Debt? What debt? You can't see it from my house!!

Nobody gives a shit if Zarqawi is dead or not. People care about our soldiers and innocent Iraqis getting killed in this senseless war.

If the Bush Machine thinks they can get better poll numbers claiming that this inconsequential fella has been captured and/or killed, they are really desperate.

Colin Powell, February 2001: "[Saddam] has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq."
Condoleeza Rice, July 2001: "We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt."
------------
Clinton said this and they said that. condi and powell said the above, guess they were lying, once again! Or, not.

"they are really desperate"

Their desperation scares me more than OBL or Z-man.

Poll numbers will go up, and down and right and left. Polls cannot fix the failed policies nor can polls change the lies that took us to Iraq.

Everybody knows who started the Iraq invasion. Everybody knows what we were told and that it all turned out to be lies.

I wonder how crazy these guys will get with their collective backs against the wall.

Been pretty crazy so far, how bad will it get in full melt-down. Nixon wanted to use nukes. He never had the media.

capt

wow, if they haven't gotten zarqawi by now, they better get on it before he paddles over here with his wooden leg and mounts an insurrection of invisible propagandists or something, ya? -

here's a history of the bush administration in one sentence

November 20, 2005
latimes.com : National News Single page

THE CURVEBALL SAGA
How U.S. Fell Under the Spell of 'Curveball'

The Iraqi informant's German handlers say they had told U.S. officials that his information was 'not proven,' and were shocked when President Bush and Colin L. Powell used it in key prewar speeches.

By Bob Drogin and John Goetz, Special to The Times

BERLIN The German intelligence officials responsible for one of the most important informants on Saddam Hussein's suspected weapons of mass destruction say that the Bush administration and the CIA repeatedly exaggerated his claims during the run-up to the war in Iraq.

Five senior officials from Germany's Federal Intelligence Service, or BND, said in interviews with The Times that they warned U.S. intelligence authorities that the source, an Iraqi defector code-named Curveball, never claimed to produce germ weapons and never saw anyone else do so.

According to the Germans, President Bush mischaracterized Curveball's information when he warned before the war that Iraq had at least seven mobile factories brewing biological poisons. Then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell also misstated Curveball's accounts in his prewar presentation to the United Nations on Feb. 5, 2003, the Germans said.

Curveball's German handlers for the last six years said his information was often vague, mostly secondhand and impossible to confirm.

"This was not substantial evidence," said a senior German intelligence official. "We made clear we could not verify the things he said."

An investigation by The Times based on interviews since May with about 30 current and former intelligence officials in the U.S., Germany, England, Iraq and the United Nations, as well as other experts, shows that U.S. bungling in the Curveball case was worse than official reports have disclosed.

The White House, for example, ignored evidence gathered by United Nations weapons inspectors shortly before the war that disproved Curveball's account. Bush and his aides issued increasingly dire warnings about Iraq's biological weapons before the war even though intelligence from Curveball had not changed in two years.

At the Central Intelligence Agency, officials embraced Curveball's account even though they could not confirm it or interview him until a year after the invasion. They ignored multiple warnings about his reliability before the war, punished in-house critics who provided proof that he had lied and refused to admit error until May 2004, 14 months after the invasion.

After the CIA vouched for Curveball's accounts, Bush declared in his 2003 State of the Union speech that Iraq had "mobile biological weapons labs" designed to produce "germ warfare agents." Bush cited the mobile germ factories in at least four prewar speeches and statements, and other world leaders repeated the charge.

Powell also highlighted Curveball's "eyewitness" account when he warned the United Nations Security Council on the eve of war that Iraq's mobile labs could brew enough weapons-grade microbes "in a single month to kill thousands upon thousands of people."

The senior BND officer who supervised Curveball's case said he was aghast when he watched Powell misstate Curveball's claims as a justification for war.
--------
Oh no, they never lied, this drunken idiot had everybody fooled! HAHAHAHA! That looks even WORSE than lying!

yelnats,
nah, we don't need to go there - order the dvd -

I've been thinking about perps/shills since you first brought it up, and I think there must be different cons at the same time - maybe one who is a perp in the power maneuver would be a shill in a larger, hard to fathom game - I just can't conceive of what the goals of any larger game would be - what's loftier than the PNAC goals? - a temple? or the supposed bilderberg plan? -

and what would happen if the one who's a perp & a shill found his machinations interfering with each other - I bet he would choose his smaller perp goals over the goals of any higher-ups and might even have a rocket sent thru the front door of the higher-up's house - ha. *x-files music AND twilight zone music at the same time*

If y'all will indulge me in going off topic--who else saw SNL's "Weekend Update" segment last show, including the footage of that psycho hose beast Elephascist congressBorg from Ohio impugning the patriotism of Rep. Murtha--probably with a fake message, knowing the Elephascists? The poor Borg looked like Bono in drag. I half expected her to burst into a spontaneous a cappella version of "New Year's Day".

Sal--have you checked your e-mail lately?

"So we're told this is the golden age/And gold is the reason for the wars we wage"---"New Year's Day", U2. "Black gold", in this case.

From where the streets have no name, Ivory Bill Woodpecker

to all trolls, please disregard that last article, as it is written by obvious Michael Moore type liberals! As Hajji would say, BWAAAAAHHHAAA!!

James--"The Invisible Propagandists" would be a great name for a rock band! (acronym: WBAGNFARB)

IB, yes I have checked my e-mail, but it's been so long sice I've heard from you I couldn't recall just who you were! Just joshin ya! Thanks for that.

"who else saw SNL's "Weekend Update" segment last show"

I have it recorded on my DVR!

capt

"...they are really desperate."---Caroline

That worries me. I hope the "football"--the locked case containing the nuclear launch codes--has been assigned to an officer who will have the stones to refuse orders from crazy men.

Ducking and covering, Ivory Bill Woodpecker

AOL poll as of 6PM Central
Do you think the White House misled the public in its case for war? Yes 70% No 30% Total Votes: 113,297
--------
This is the fourth informal poll I have seen on this subject, and the tally overwhelmingly states that the people are PISSED!

From SNL:

Judging from her outfit a 1970's gymnast.

HA!

capt

Oh, but Sal, that's the "librul media", doncha know! We all know how incorrigibly librul the owners and managers of giant corporations like AOL are!;)

BuzzFlash said a few days ago that Schmidt's outfit looked like she'd been mugged by a 4th of July napkin set, or something like that.---IBW

George Bush:World Class Monster

True evil does not develop in a vacuum.

Evil is arrogant. It has no conscience. It is utterly self-serving. It hides from the light and will attack, even destroy others to preserve its own demented delusions. It is an unrestrained sociopath, wallowing in the murky darkness of its own psychosis while endlessly rationalizing its terrible deeds. It infiltrates the weak-minded and subverts the weak of character.

Evil... creates a world of shadows - shadow play - shadow government. It lives by the lie.

"The Big Lie," once thought to be the exclusive purview of the Nazis, has become canonized in our form of government. And it is growing more perverse—more insidious. Like the Nazis before the fall of the Third Reich, we are a nation wallowing in the murky darkness of our own psychosis.

I can think of no contemporary American family more twisted and evil than the Bush dynasty.

*****end of clip*****

An interesting piece from a while back.

capt

Fourth of July disposable paper napkins.

TRANSCRIPT OF PRESIDENT'S PRIVATE MEETING WITH BRIEFLY ESTRANGED PATHOLOGICAL LIAR CHICKENHAWK SOULMATE AHMAD CHALABI

[BEGIN TRANSCRIPT]

AHMAD CHALABI: Mr. President.

THE PRESIDENT: Ayep.

AHMAD CHALABI: Thank you for taking the time to see me.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I have a couple spare minutes...

AHMAD CHALABI: Again, thank you.

THE PRESIDENT: ...and Condi and Dick and everybody is all "Why won't you see him?" "He misses you." And "It's been a long time maybe he's changed."

AHMAD CHALABI: I have. I do miss you, Mr. President.

THE PRESIDENT: Oh, no! Don't you try and sweet talk me. This Iraqgate stuff is all YOUR fault. You lied to me.

AHMAD CHALABI: Sir? I'm afraid I don't know what you mean.

THE PRESIDENT: Talk to the hand, camel breath. I totally remember that meeting where you made up all that stuff about nukular-anthrax-tipped intercontinental ballistic missiles pointed at Houston and Dollywood. And how American troops would be welcomed with open legs by throngs of super-hot Iraqazoid sluts throwing flowers and panties like they were front row at a Tom Jones gig. That stuff. Ring a bell?

AHMAD CHALABI: I remember the meeting you speak of, sir, but if you'll recall, these things were spoken not by myself, but by Mr. Wolfowitz and Mr. Cheney. I was merely the obsequious cockroach who nodded and said, "Whatever words you speak, my Neocon Puppermasters, I shall happily regurgitate publicly, just so long as you spell my name correctly on the seven-figure treasury checks."

THE PRESIDENT: Are you sure about that? I coulda sworn it was you...

*****end of clip*****

I had no idea there were transcripts for the secret meetings?

capt

We Must Hold the Scoundrels Accountable

by Paul Craig Roberts

Under the Nuremberg standard, it is a war crime to initiate military aggression.

It is a criminal act both in the U.S. and the UK to commit military forces to action under false pretenses.

Many aspects of the conduct of the war are criminal. Torture, murder of civilians, corruption in contracts. Prosecutors could build a list of charges against President George W. Bush, Vice President Richard Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and Prime Minister Blair.

In England it is not Blair who is on trial for participating in what he knew was a wrongful act that has resulted in thousands of deaths. It is not the crimes committed in secret that get punished. The people who are punished are the ones who leak memos that reveal wrongdoing has occurred.

*****end of clip*****

An interesting piece.

capt

#18 (of James Ha)

A strange venn diagram of con games has been something in my mind, but I don't think it would be a command-control operation (i.e. centrally controlled) but like lovers the mutual opportunities and high overlapping goals build up and they decide that the differences will get worked out later. I think you probably agree with that based on the last part of your comment about a 'betrayal'.

I do not think PNAC alone provides the ultimate motive in the "psyche" of the highest level perps. Although this is where many or all may reside along with their highest level shills. I have to go back and read their site more completely to make sure, but I felt PNAC describes "means" and not "ends". They talk about 'America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.'

I believe them when they say it is America's unique role to bring about security and prosperity but I'm not assured that they are talking about America's security, prosperity and principles but possibly it could be that of a select group of people, social-class, political party (foreign or domestic)? So what are those values and principles, and whose prosperity needs to be protected? Are the they values and principles associated with a liberal constitutional governance such as one person/one vote, freedom of speech, due process, etc)? Ignoring any possible lip service about supporting the American people, who are they giving seats to at their table.. I can tell you it probably isn't advocates for the poor, workers, educators, etc. It also probably isn't anyone who "idealistically" believes that our nation is progressing with things like civil rights, and social security systems, and healthcare for all.

#73 (from Derrick Michael Reid a few threads back)

I added this after David Corn had moved on, but I was hoping to hear Derrick's thoughts on this, so just in case he is still around...

quoted from Derrick's earlier post:

What you might be missing is that for the war on terror will never be won until democracies in the middle east are be stood up to give all right to express greivences to governments that will sit on the islamo-facists. If you have "VISION", you must agree that saddam stood in the way to victory in that war, and the Iraq invasion was necessary.

First I assume that you have agreed that the war in Iraq does not directly lower the probability of being attacked on US soil, for you have not refuted my earlier statements.

You are now proposing a different justification for the War in Iraq. Your premise is that terrorism will subside if the west can do some nation building in the middle east by making them democratic (this is an offshoot reasoning of the Neocon PNAC). Your view is that going to war will help make these nations democratic, and therefore the war indirectly leads to reducing terrorism through war's ability to create democratic nations.

So the question now is does war with Iraq allow us to create democratic nations in the middle east (and thereby reduce terrorism).

First democracies are helpful but not sufficient, you mentioned the ability for individuals to express their grievances to the government. That really describes a liberal constitutional government (where liberal means rights to own property, due process, vote, etc). The Athenians were democractic but the rulers were autocratic while they held office. So your point is that we want the middle east nations to see human rights in the same way that we in the west have come to see them. If democracy was the only reason, then we in the US might not be too happy how a 1 person 1 vote election turned out because it might be very hostile to the US and western values.

I agree liberal constitutional governments is a major way to combat global terrorism, but that doesn't justify war as a means to bring it about.

I recommend reading The Rise of Illiberal Democracy by Fareed Zakaria, or at least checking out his web page at http://www.fareedzakaria.com/articles/other/democracy.html.

Liberal consitutional governments don't form overnight and cannot be propped up by an outside force. It takes a developing infrastructure, and experience to build up a liberal constitutional government mindset. When did the US become a democracy? It depends on one's point of view. All adults couldn't vote in the US until the 1920s, about 150 years after our constitution was formed and yet we naively think the arab world will readily pick up right where we are.

Each western nation took years to become a liberal constitutional government, in fact you might say they are all continuing a path of perfecting themselves as liberal constitutional governments. Again when the USA was first formed only landowners could vote, it wasn't until just before the civil war that non-landowners could vote, after the civil war it was blacks, and in the 1920s it was women.

How would we like it if other nations would have attacked us to force us to provide more liberties to the oppressed people when we didn't quite see it as oppression but was part of our culture and religion. The closest we had to that was the civil war and still took 100 years to really give the black people a right to vote.

So I really wouldn't bet much on a war to make Iraq or any nation a liberal constitutional government overnight... and there certainly other ways to influence nations to become so without war. That is how most of europe became liberal constitutional governments, it was out of jealousy of the success of England and later the USA. We could do a lot more economically then militarily to influence human rights.

Search Job Tracker:

Find out which companies in your area are exporting jobs, endangering workers' health or involved in cases of violations of workers' rights under the National Labor Relations Act. The database contains information on more than 60,000 companies nationwide. More on Job Tracker sources and data.

Enter your ZIP code, state or company name below, or search by specific industry to see the detailed information.

*****end of clip*****

Zip or state, kind of interesting.

capt

From McLaughlin Group's analysis of General Odom's comments about withdrawing from Iraq. Odom is respected in national intelligence.

His main point, the nine arguments cited to stay are reasons to leave.

1) withdrawal will create a civil war
Odom: a civil war is already happening, and will get worse with our presence

2) world against withdrawal
Odom: world support will be gained by withdrawal, the world is enjoying our pain in Iraq

3) withdrawal will embolden the insurgency
Odom: our current occupation emboldens the insurgency and there are many young angry Arabs as see the opportunitiy to cause pain to US soldiers as a great gain

4) Withdrawal will create a terrorist haven
Odom: Iraq is already worse then a haven it is a training ground

5) withdrawal invites Iranian influence in Iraq
Odom: our occupation increases Iranian influence in Iraq

6) withdrawal unreset will spread to other nations
Odom: unrest will spread if we stay

7) withdrawal will increase sunni/shitie clashes
Odom: more clashes are prompted by our staying, we are allowing them to get really well trained so that they can have a really bloody bloody conflict

8) iraq's military and police too unprepared
Odom: unpreparedness of military is not the problem, it is their disloyalty to the new government

9) talk of withdrawal is disloyal to the troops and worsens the morale
Odom: soldiers favor the questioning of the US/Iraq policy

White House doubts reports of Zarqawi death

BEIJING (AFX) - The White House said it was 'highly unlikely' that Al-Qaeda's leader in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, had been killed.

White House spokesman Trent Duffy told Agence France-Presse in Beijing, as President George W Bush was wrapping up a trip to China, that the story was 'highly unlikely, not credible.'

Media reports yesterday said Zarqawi may have been among a group of insurgents killed in battle in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul on Saturday.

*****end of clip*****

They know it is unlikely. They either know he is dead or where he is.

Like I said if they killed the boogeyman they would have to come up with another. A hard sell now that 7 in 10 have come to grips with a bit of reality.

"Zarqawi is dead, long live Zarqawi"

All of that talk about catching Zarqawi's number two was a bunch of s**t. HA!

capt

Washington Post rebukes Bob Woodward

In a column highly critical of Woodward's conduct, Washington Post ombudsman Deborah Howell said the newspaper took a "hit to its credibility" and called for more oversight of Woodward's work.

"He has to operate under the rules that govern the rest of the staff -- even if he's rich and famous," Howell wrote of Woodward, one of the two Washington Post reporters famed for coverage of the 1970s Watergate scandal that brought down President Richard Nixon.

How We Got Into This Imperial Pickle: A PNAC Primer

Bernard Weiner
Co-Editor, The Crisis Papers
May 26, 2003

Some of the ideological roots of today's Bush Administration power-wielders could be traced back to political philosophers Leo Strauss and Albert Wohlstetter or to GOP rightist Barry Goldwater and his rabid anti-communist followers in the early-1960s. But, for simplicity's sake let's stick closer to our own time.

In the early-1990s, there was a group of ideologues and power-politicians on the fringe of the Republican Party's far-right. The members of this group in 1997 would found The Project for the New American Century (PNAC); their aim was to prepare for the day when the Republicans regained control of the White House -- and, it was hoped, the other two branches of government as well -- so that their vision of how the U.S. should move in the world would be in place and ready to go, straight off-the-shelf into official policy.

This PNAC group was led by such heavy hitters as Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, James Woolsey, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Bill Kristol, James Bolton, Zalmay M. Khalilzad, William Bennett, Dan Quayle, Jeb Bush, most of whom were movers-and-shakers in previous Administrations, then in power-exile, as it were, while Clinton was in the White House. But even given their reputations and clout, the views of this group were regarded as too extreme to be taken seriously by the mainstream conservatives that controlled the Republican Party.

*****end of clip*****

One of the better pieces about PNAC. The clip does not do justice to the whole piece.

capt

14-minute video of Lawrence Wilkerson on CNN/Wolf Blitzer

Jewish Leader Blasts 'Religious Right'

By KRISTEN HAYS, Associated Press Writer
Sat Nov 19, 6:07 PM ET

HOUSTON - The leader of the largest branch of American Judaism blasted conservative religious activists in a speech Saturday, calling them "zealots" who claim a "monopoly on God" while promoting anti-gay policies akin to Adolf Hitler's.

Rabbi Eric Yoffie, president of the liberal Union for Reform Judaism, said "religious right" leaders believe "unless you attend my church, accept my God and study my sacred text you cannot be a moral person."

"What could be more bigoted than to claim that you have a monopoly on God?" he said during the movement's national assembly in Houston, which runs through Sunday.

The audience of 5,000 responded to the speech with enthusiastic applause.

Yoffie did not mention evangelical Christians directly, using the term "religious right" instead. In a separate interview, he said the phrase encompassed conservative activists of all faiths, including within the Jewish community.

He used particularly strong language to condemn conservative attitudes toward homosexuals. He said he understood that traditionalists have concluded gay marriage violates Scripture, but he said that did not justify denying legal protections to same-sex partners and their children.

"We cannot forget that when Hitler came to power in 1933, one of the first things that he did was ban gay organizations," Yoffie said. "Yes, we can disagree about gay marriage. But there is no excuse for hateful rhetoric that fuels the hellfires of anti-gay bigotry."

*****end of clip*****

I am still waiting to hear the American Christian leaders condemn hate.

I had completely missed the connection to the anti-gay bigotry of the Nazis. So much the same as today some of the higher ranking military and party were gay.

When are people going to realize that all hate is an outgrowth of self-hatred? Hate never looks good on anybody. Hate is a mask worn to cover fear.

"If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us." ~ Hermann Hesse (1877 - 1962)

capt

Murtha's video on Russert/MTP is at Crooks and Liars too.

Door thwarts quick exit for Bush

President George W Bush tried to make a quick exit from a news conference in Beijing on Sunday - only to find himself thwarted by locked doors.

After answering just six questions from a group of US reporters, the president strode away heading towards the door.

President Bush tugged at both handles on the double doors before admitting: "I was trying to escape. Obviously, it didn't work."

*****end of clip*****

Exit strategy aside, it sound like he was really trying to escape. The Sunday school cowboy is really just a scared little monkey-boy.

(video at link)

Click HERE for a still. Scroll up for a series.

capt

LATEST HEADLINES

Cheney's pants catch fire at GOP dinner

Mars, God of War, calls for immediate troop withdrawal

Mathematician who solved Fermat's Last Theorem 'baffled' by Medicare plan

More trouble for Bush: chickenhawks contract bird flu

Jordan: suicide bomber faces death penalty

Hollywood: top billing in 'Dawn of Dead' sequel offered to Chalabi

Alito distances himself from himself

Bush proposes constitutional lowering of the bar

Jesus returns, renditioned to Uzbekistan, tortured

FEMA 'getting out' of emergency management business

Pro-lifers mistakenly bomb anti-abortion clinic

Castro 'fit as a Fidel'

Dems risk losing endangered species status

Slave laborers accused of padding hours

Bush: we were all wrong on global warming

Nudists drop Casual Friday

http://www.ironictimes.com/

Can't we just return to the days when we simply adorned dictators with our generous monetary donations to appease our myopic image of world peace? Imagine, as the great bong leader sang, if you can.

That evilMcChimphilternazieatingbabiesforbreakfastcowboy done gone an messed up our utophia.

chickenhawk get the bird flu, WAY-FUNNY!!

Sure it would help Bush's image if Zarquari is captured or killed.

yelnats @ #35 re: Gen. Odom. Mr. Odom's points are remarkably in line with the thoughtful case made in Nir Rosen's article in the current Atlantic Monthly that the best the US can do in Iraq right now for everyone is leave quickly. I am not 100% convinced, but this has changed my own thinking quite a bit. Previously, I thought we might gradually withdraw over a few months, do a "mea culpa" to the rest of the world, and propose a UN resolution to bring in some US peacekeeping troops, with a significant component from countries of the Middle East neighboring hesresoutiosoe a kplaosulyfeelings quite a bit. The Rosen article also states that the Kurds will never really be a part of the "new" Iraq. That they are essentially already runnning their notherrn territories as an autonomous state.

A couple links for those who'd like a painful reminder of the culture of staggering arrogance and impunity of various hangers-on to the neo-con administration: Judy Miller again, and an colleague of mega-political criminal Jack Abramoff:

http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/transcripts_111105_judith.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/17/AR2005111701682.html

But Dave Corn, I am sensing some bias here. You indicate that a couple of well placed bullets wont solve the war. Of course, but you need to look at the accumlative effect. War is being won, slow but sure, too slow for most getting frustrated, ala Murdhal, but it seems that progress is being made, one bullet at a time.

Hello all,

Will death of Z help anything? Probaly not.

Years ago when I was in Pakistan and southern Afganistan as well as Kenya, Back when things were 'okay' for the average US citizen there, cept for northern Afghanistn at war with the USSR, it was volitile, dangerous and misery was plentiful. That was when things were 'good'.

The new dimension of misery that the USA has inflicted on people in Iraq is incomprehensible. The people on the ground in Iraq probably are less concerned with 'Z' as they are on the minute to minute suffering that they face, well, minute to minute. I'm guessing their misery has 'USA' imprinted on their thoughts - sans 'Z'.

To make matters worse, even if the pentagon starts quietly pulling troops out, the probability increases for both sides to rachet up attacks with more visciousness and use of nasty weapons, as well as the potential for land mines.

This war is a horrible crime with or without 'Z'. There is no way to paint it rosey. It will be a black mark for generations. That mark must be worn by the bushco's. Problem is a black eye for the USA and bushco is a black eye for us all.

I found a link with the Nir Rosen article, where you don't need to be a registered subscriber:

http://anthony.gnn.tv/

yep Derrick, roughly 100,000 Iraqis liberated already! One bullet at a time. I know, you have to scramble some eggs to make the pipeline omelette, right?

yelnats,
could it actually be as cut and dried as this?
The Religious Nature Of Politics

"War is being won, slow but sure..." Yeah, by the enemy. Again, it doesn't matter if we kill their big shots or not. A broad-based, popular resistance movement does not crumble if its leader(s) is/are killed. We would have lost the Vietnam War even if we had killed Ho, and killing Zarqawi, or even bin Laden, will not make the Iraqi rebels roll over and play dead. For every rebel we kill, we make several other non-rebels angry enough to become rebels. How does Mr. Reid think we can win when every tactic available creates more enemies than it destroys? If the position was somehow reversed, if some powerful enemy had invaded OUR country, does he think we'd surrender? Did WE yield to superior force in 1775-1781?

Also, how long do our hawks think we can AFFORD this hare-brained attempt by a cabal of pseudo-intellectual chickenhawks to subjugate the Middle East? WE ARE A DEBTOR NATION. OUR ATTEMPTS TO CREATE A STEALTH EMPIRE (not even so stealthy lately) ARE BANKRUPTING US. The only winners of this war will be Iran (in the Middle East) and China (which will surpass us as the world's leading economic power). If we continue on the current path, we will end up like the Soviet Union; an economic basket case that can no longer maintain a large military force. Our military officers are already warning us that this war is crippling the long-term effectiveness of our armed forces. We could end up with a Potemkin-village military, impressive-looking but hollow.

Bring our troops home, and then impeach the murdering bastards who sent them to die for a pack of lies.

From the swamps of Arkansas, Ivory Bill Woodpecker

Saladin,

Saddam killed 1000000 muslim. How many more before you would doing any thing about it?

At least the current deaths are part of a noble struggle to free the islamic world of centuries of social stagnation.

Bush is a hero.

Any man who liberates 50,000,000 from tyranny and oppression should be a hero in everyone's book. Now come on you guys, you cant have it both ways, good that saddam is gone, but the war was a mistake. Can you?

You know things are NOT going swimmingly when Rummy distances himself from this "noble" war:

The following exchange is an excerpt from yesterday's "This Week."

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: If you had known that no weapons of mass destruction would be found, would you have advocated invasion?

SEC. RUMSFELD: I didn?t advocate invasion.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You didn?t?

RUMSFELD: No, I wasn?t asked.

DMR, down boy! You're about to OD on the Kool-Aid!

Derrick, saddam killed how many? And just where do you get this info? bush said so? TV said so? Even if it were true, why is it murder when he does it, but noble when we do it? If that isn't mind conditioning I don't know what is.

Well, we sure live in interesting times, don't we?

And I found watching things unfold since Murtha's bombshell on Thursday to be a better spending of time than worrying what my comments on the matter might be.

The Jean Schmidt affair was particularly amusing, as was the whole US Congress Show on Friday.

"When the going gets strange the weird turn pro." - HST, shame he checked out, he would have enjoyed the spectacle. But that is a good seque to a link to the current issue of Rolling Stone, and JAmes Bamford's new article, "The Man Who Sold the War"
Meet John Rendon, Bush's general in the propaganda war
By JAMES BAMFORD

*******************

I must say that I am reminded of the fall of the Nixon regime, and in that regards some might be interested in "Yankee and the Cowboy War" by Carl Oglesby, for a look at competing interests within the power structure.

Derrick, they were going to destroy Iraq whether saddam was still in power or not, they admitted it. Liberating the people had zero to do with it. They also admitted that Iraq was the chosen target because it is swimming on a sea of oil. You must have some of the rosiest colored glasses around.

Removing Zarqawi won't mean anything in terms of the war in Iraq. I blogged on the "foreign fighters" deal here with information confirming that they are insignificant in real terms:

http://greyhairsblog.blogspot.com/
2005/11/foreign-fightersor-lack-thereof
.html

I think you are correct, that the administration loses a figurehead to pick on. But don't fret. They'll find another playing card.

Globalist Plan to Disarm America: PL87-297 Arms Control and Disarmament Act

... go to your local library, no matter where you live in the United States. Tell the librarian to show you where the 'United States Code books' are shelved. There are 25 books in the set. They are reddish-brown in color. They are printed by the Government Printing Office in Washington, DC. These hard-covered books are printed every 8-10 years. They are updated with annual soft-back supplements each year until a new hard cover issue comes out. At the present time, the 1988 hardbacks are on library shelves.

OPEN VOLUME 9. The page numbers are in the center near the middle binding. The section numbers are along the edges.

TURN TO PAGE 651. Here you will find Public Law 87-297 which calls for the United States to eliminate its armed forces. This law was signed for the United States in 1961. John F. Kennedy signed it and every president since has worked to enact its provisions. The government knows you will not approve which is why they want to take away your firearms. (This is Title 22 USC section 2551)

TURN TO PAGE 652. Here you will find the definition of what the government means by "disarmament." The disarmament calls for the elimination of our armed forces. It also calls for the elimination of weapons of all kinds.

(This is Title 22 USC 2552 (a).

TURN TO PAGE 654. Here you will find it stated as item (a) "control, reduction and elimination of armed forces..." and as Item (d)" ...Elimination of armed forces...." What you need to know is that your armed forces are being eliminated and relinquished from national control which, in turn, wipes out our sovereignty as a nation. In two stages, we will have no more army, no more navy, no more air force. In the third stage, we shall have a "zero" military. Before Stage I closes, all citizen owned guns are to be banned.

(This is Title 22 USC Section 2571 (a).
---------------
Is this why we are losing military bases?

Ivory Bill,

Here is where you are going wrong. The islamic culture has a 1500 year history of killing the infidels, and that aint going to change over night. You have 9/11, far removed from the middle east. This of the 9/11 strike as a rounge bubble-bee strike from a distance hive. Now, you make the decision to sit back and get recurringly stung for a far afield hive, or you strike at the heart and kill it. The decision not to take recurring 9/11s to strike necessary means hiting the hive, and when you do that, sure the bees will come out in mass, as you destroy the hive. So, the arguement that you are creating more terrorist is hog-wash, but merely a result of a proximate war against the hive. Get it? did not thank so.

I don't know what the administration is thinking or what the propaganda wing of the white house is conjuring up, but I do know my part of the heartland. They don't keep track of people like Zawqawi. If you tell someone that Zawqawi was killed they will respond with a comment like "Who's he exactly?" or "Good now we can leave Iraq."
They don't keep a score card of terrorists much to the dismay of the Bush administration. The old deck of cards gimmick was a nice marketing tool but it wasn't a way to run a war. The White House has to remember it isn't toothpaste they are selling.

Yelnats,
Great comments.

#62
I know I don't get it.

Now, remind me of what Iraq had to do with 9/11? You've really got it bad, dontcha Derrick? I almost feel sorry for you, but the truth is out there, so there's no excuse for such blatant ignorance. Blind patriotism is the most dangerous religion of all, makes Islamo-Facists seem tame by comparison!

Salamen,

Ask the gased Kurds, or the swamp Arabs, or the Iranians, or the Kuwaties.

You cant be serious?

Salamen,

Ask the gased Kurds, or the swamp Arabs, or the Iranians, or the Kuwaties.

You cant be serious?

I don't get #62 either, Derrick. You sound like someone who believes in Manifest Destiny of the West. Maybe you should fast forward a hundred years or so from when that doctrine was in vogue.

Dang, sorry about that triple post, computer problem.

Jeane,

The islamo-facists are concentrated in the middle east. If the infidels go there, you should expect more of them to become active. (Not all islamo facist have MA plane tickets, now do they?) It is not that we created more terrorists by going into Iraq, the increase in attacks is a consequence of our military proximity, not their existance.

Riff,

I do believe that the world is on the right track headed towards more broadband connectivity, and that there is a struggle between the CORE (Russia-US-China-EU-India) and the GAP (Middle east Africa) of unconnected rouge countries. As rouge countries (Saddam's Iraq) are converted and integrated into the CORE (a new world order), the world is headed for peace for decades in not centuries to come. Yes there is vision here, and the civilization of militant islam is part of that struggle.

Let's ask the 100,000 we've slaughtered. You can't be serious. What is it about attacking Iraq with or without saddam in charge that you don't understand? And, who was it that gassed the Kurds? You might want to look a little more closely at that.

Most dangerous city? Ranking says Camden

CAMDEN, N.J. - For the second year in a row, this destitute city has been named the nation's most dangerous, according to a company's annual ranking based on crime statistics....

...Police are now using computers to try to track crime trends, and more officers are patrolling the city's neighborhoods.

Authorities say that has helped drive down the most serious crimes by 18 percent in the first 10 months of 2005 compared with the same period a year earlier.

Some residents say their neighborhoods feel a bit safer.

"I haven’¥ heard that many gunshots," said Gracy Muniz, 22, a mother of three who lives in North Camden.

Critics note that Morgan Quitno’≥ ranking is based on data from last year, when the city of 80,000 averaged a murder a week. Murders from January through October were down by 45 percent compared with the same period in 2004.

Top 10 lists
Scott Morgan, president of Morgan Quitno, said Friday that while the numbers may not be perfect, they are one of the only ways to compare crime in different cities. Below are the top 10 lists compiled by the publisher.

Most Dangerous Cities:
1. Camden, N.J.
2. Detroit
3. St. Louis
4. Flint, Mich.
5. Richmond, Va.
6. Baltimore
7. Atlanta
8. New Orleans
9. Gary, Ind.
10. Birmingham, Ala.

Safest Cities:
1. Newton, Mass.
2. Clarkstown, N.Y.
3. Amherst, N.Y.
4. Mission Viejo, Calif.
5. Brick Township, N.J.
6. Troy, Mich.
7. Thousand Oaks, Calif.
8. Round Rock, Texas
9. Lake Forest, Calif.
10. Cary, N.C.
---------------------------
We went into a war with Iraq for a reason I have yet to understand. And the real war on terror is here. The war on poverty is far greater a menace to this nation than Bush's played-up enemies.

The real joke is the choice of who the enemy is. There are far greater enemies than Saddam was. Osama was ignored. North Korea was ignored. The Darfar region was ignored.
And now somehow Hugo Chavez is the enemy. Why? And why are we finding new enemies? Why is the enemy in our nation not poverty or lack of health care?

Derrick, it must be wonderful to live with such illusions. To be able to completely ignore all evidence contrary to your personal vision of what is happening. I will leave you with the unfounded notion that Islam is the bad guy and we are the knights in shining armor. The day will come soon enough when that happy fantasy is shattered for everyone who induldges in it.

Dear Mr. Reid,

Spell check would do very little to bolster your obvious ignorance.

It is not that we created more terrorists by going into Iraq, the increase in attacks is a consequence of our military proximity, not their existance.

You exhibit no knowledge about tribal society, the influence of revenge for the slights of honor involved in search and destroy missions, for instance.

My only post to your ignorance.

Is there an Exorcist in the house? Will Holy Water sizzle if sprinkled on Chimpy? Could humanity survive nu-cu-lar winter? Is Zukawaki the ONLY terrorist leader?

Salamin, OK HERE IS THE REMINDER.

The war on terror took it urgency after 9/11. (Agreed?) The war on terror will never be won until democracy are stood up giving all the right to express greivences to governments that will sit on the crazies. (Agreed?) Saddams' Iraq stood in the way in the war on terror. (Agreed?) Given Saddam's bad acts of killing 1000000 muslim, one pistol shot at an F15 over a no-fly zone should have been sufficient justification to take him out. (Agreed?)
The War on Terror is on, and the battle for Iraq is nearly won. (Agreed?)
Sure, Bush used WMD for the mono v mono appeal, but there were 14 years of justification for regime change as part of the war on terror.

Al-Zarqawi believed dead, says Iraqi foreign minister

Al-Qaida in Iraq chief Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is believed to have been killed in a military operation in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, Iraq's foreign minister said today.

Hoshyar Zebari told the official Petra news agency during a visit to Moscow that Iraqi authorities were testing DNA samples from several corpses of insurgents killed in a weekend gunfight in Mosul.

"American and Iraqi forces are investigating the possibility that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's corpse is among the bodies of some terrorists who died in the special military operation in Mosul," she said.

State television carried the urgent news in a scrolling newsbar at the bottom of the screen during regular programming, suggesting that Jordanian officials likely believe the report.

No other details were immediately available.

Earlier today, the White House had said it was "Highly unlikely "that al-Zarqawi was among the dead."
---------------------------
Ok, so...can we go home now?

I lied -

The war on terror took it urgency after 9/11. (Agreed?) Mr. Reid

NOT AGREED - 9/11 was a criminal act which was never fully investigated and the crime scene was criminally distroyed before the investigation could take place. I was, is and should have remained a criminal, not military, investigation.

First of all Derrick, it's hard to take you seriously when you can't even spell my name correctly! I disagree with virtually all of your points, because they are bullshit lies and propaganda. I concur with Robert, your ignorance is staggering, so I won't detail my reasons, but rather leave you to your cozy little version of the world. TA TA!

Robert,

of course I understand that they do not want the infidels on their lands, but accept as simply the lesser of two evils, as compared to Saddam's brutality, and hence, when the gov can stand on its own, we should get out of the there. I agree with that.

Saladin, that is what makes a horse race. I want to hear your point of view, as I will never be so coc-sure I wont listen. But, you know, I too would rather there not be the war, but I dont want another 9/11, and the islamo-facist world need an attitude adjustment, and that includes moving the strong-men towards democracy.

#77
Why should she agree to that? If the war on terror had been more urgent before 9/11 we wouldn't have had 9/11.
The Bush administration is not interested in spreading democracy, just stealing the wealth and resouces of the nations they are plundering. My proof? Why do the neocons keep installing puppet governments?
Saddam's Iraq did not stand in the way of the war on terror. What crap.
Why is the Darfar region of no concern to this administration when hundreds of thousands are being murdered there?
The war being won? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Stop. Too funny.

#77

Here we go again with the rnc canned talking points on Iraq and Sadaam Hussien. Its as if
Bush backers keep repeating them enough they will braiwash themselves into believing them.

The Bush backers simply refuse to deal with the truth that Hussien was no "imminent threat" to the U.S., has no hughe caches of WMD'S and had no involvement with the events of 9-11-01, and finally that their was no collusion between Hussien and Bin Laden.

Let the Bush backers keep repeating their rnc approved talking points. The american people are not buying it anymore.

Salamen,

Rather than merely slam my point of view, please tell your plan (specific course of action) to avoid future terrorist attacks. "Death to America", when we supported strong-man rule (shaw of Iran) rather than encourage democratic reform, now forcefully done in Iraq?

Robert, I know some people here will wonder why I am conversing with a bushbot, breaking my own self-imposed rule. The answer is that he has remained, in spite of his serious lack of original talking points, polite. I don't mind the disagreements I have with these war supporters, what I do mind is mean and rude name calling used in place of rational discourse. But I do get bored when all they can come up with are opinions unbacked by facts. The facts of 9/11 are conveniently swept under the carpet because they don't gel with the already preconceived and prejudiced ideas of Muslims as psychos and the US Govt. as heroes. There really is no reasoning with people who refuse to examine both sides, so I won't.

Left Angle,

If you wait until there is an immenant threat, you waited too long. Get it? No need to buy the guard dog, when the burlar already has a gun to your head. But preemptive strikes in advance of an immenant threat must be justified. Here, Saddam's bad acts were sufficient justification, and WMD possession or failure to show no WMD possession, was just one point of those justifications.

Saliman, "There really is no reasoning with people who refuse to examine both sides, so I won't."

Your strategy:

Provide no alternative course of conduct or plan.
Do not reason with opposing views.
JUST SLAM the administration, is your tactic.

This is exactly what the objection is to the entire dem leadership, and Salamin it seems that you have adpoted this approach, wholesale.

Fire Woodward

By Evan Derkacz

Printed on November 21, 2005

After reading Washington Post's "non-budsman's" defense of Woodward's decision to conceal from his editor's his knowledge of the outing of Valerie Plame, John Aravosis writes: "just in case any real journalists are still left at the Washington Post: Bob Woodard's excuse is a lie that a child could unravel."

*****end of clip*****

That is what I was thinking.

capt

if y'all look back to #54 you'll understand that mr. Reid is just going on n on in order to get your collective goats - or pet goats I should say -

Saladin,

I think misspelling your name, repeatedly, deliberately or by lack of care, is enough rudeness on it's face to cease coversation.

For myself, I will continue to slam any administration, that lies to come to power, lies to commit forces to combat, lies to stay in power, etc.

My plan?
#1 and by far the most important. Remove the traitorous neocons that have staged the coup d'etat that is bringing our country to ruin.
#2 Arrest, try and imprison every member of the criminal cabal known as the PNAC, they are the ones responsible for 9/11.
#3 Remove and outlaw lobbyists.
#4 Abolish the dishonest and unfair two party political system. We need to get back to Govt. of the people, by the people and for the people.
#5 Dismantle all foreign military bases and mind our own damn business! We have enough problems in our own country, we don't need our fingers in every pie.
# 6 Start serious investment into alternative energy sources. This is our Achilles heel, putting it off won't make it go away.

Here is a PNAC primer. If you are truly interested in why we are doing what we are doing in the middle east, this goes a long way in explaining it. Believe me, democracy isn't even in the formula.

PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY (PNAC)

Salamin: ?9/11 was a criminal act which was never fully investigated and the crime scene was criminally distroyed before the investigation could take place. I was, is and should have remained a criminal, not military, investigation."

That is a reasonable position to take. OK, have it your way. I will simply call the 82 airborne, our foreign swat teams. But really, I do not consider the 9/11 attacks to be a mere case of murder, as it is part of a global strategy for militant Islam. I suppose Japan's attack on pearl harbor was just a simple graffie case? Now here is the JOKE of course, you say they are criminals, yet want GENVA TREATY PROTECTION, how does POW treaty protection square with you saying they are mere criminals. You cant have it both ways, can you?

Biden: Chance of Alito Filibuster Higher

WASHINGTON (AP) - The views that Samuel Alito expressed on reapportionment in a 20-year-old document could jeopardize his Supreme Court nomination and provoke a filibuster, a leading Democratic senator said Sunday.

"I think he's got a lot of explaining to do, and depending on how he does, I think will determine whether or not he has a problem or not," said Sen. Joseph Biden, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which plans confirmation hearings in early January.

In 1985, Alito was applying to become deputy assistant attorney general in the Reagan administration. In the document, he boasted that while working as an assistant to the solicitor general, he helped "to advance legal positions in which I personally believe very strongly."

Drawing the most attention from Alito's critics today is his comment on abortion.

"I am particularly proud of my contributions in recent cases in which the government argued that racial and ethnic quotas should not be allowed and that the Constitution does not protect a right to an abortion," wrote Alito, now a federal appeals court judge.

*****end of clip*****

I have said that nothing would surprise me but if the Democrats filibuster I will be surprised.

They will threaten and pretend until the last minute, then Alito will be confirmed. All that is needed to avoid the filibuster is a few Democrats, we can all guess those names.

capt

James, he hasn't gotten my goat, but I do know that bush supporters need their belief just like all religious fanatics need their belief. I have reached the end. Robert is probably right, mispelling my name is disrespectful on the face, plus he won't answer my questions or even acknowledge his inconsistancies. I don't have anything else to say to him.

James, he hasn't gotten my goat, but I do know that bush supporters need their belief just like all religious fanatics need their belief. I have reached the end. Robert is probably right, mispelling my name is disrespectful on the face, plus he won't answer my questions or even acknowledge his inconsistancies. I don't have anything else to say to him.

Requardless of Zeqarwi dead or not, I consider Iraq standing up and the containment of Militant islam, a done deal, if you can project 5 years out. The real issues today should be shutting down the southern border and developing alternative fuels.

I remember a troll post yesterday that made a serious point that I had heard as a joke on SNL. Too funny.

Dont you all just love Bush packing the court with conservative! Dang, christmas may survive after all.

L.A. Times Cutting 85 Newsroom Jobs

From a Times Staff Writer

1:20 PM PST, November 16, 2005

The Los Angeles Times today announced it will reduce its workforce, including eliminating about 8% of its editorial staff.

In e-mails sent to employees, Publisher Jeff Johnson and Editor Dean Baquet announced the reductions, which had been rumored for days.

"Beginning this week and over the next three weeks, departments will be communicating specific initiatives including job reductions to their employees," Johnson said. "These are not easy decisions and we are not taking them lightly. However, given the current business climate, we feel these reductions are absolutely essential to succeed in 2006 and beyond."

The paper gave no number for the jobs to be eliminated paper wide. However, Baquet said about 85 newsroom jobs will be lost. There are about 1,032 editorial positions.

"A few of the cuts have already been made through attrition. Some will come through a voluntary separation program. But others, unfortunately, will come through layoffs," Baquet said.

*****end of clip*****

Sad for those losing their jobs.

The problem I see is more with ownership and sponsorship. The influence of necessary profit does not mean the "suits" should be running the news-room. Sure all papers can do a better job and I am sure they can be profitable but when news is chasing ratings the message is conditioned, the story selection perverted, no way around it.

capt

97
And Dreeeeam the impoooossible dream.

This is my quest
To follow that star
No matter how hopeless
No matter how far

To fight for the right
Without question or pause
To be willing to march into Hell
For a heavenly cause

Dream the Impossible Dream
---------------------
Go for it Derrick. Join the army.

As I have noted on many previous occasions, I might be able to take the trolls more seriously if they could spell. I have to get some sleep before going to work tonight, so sayonara, y'all.---IBW

mr. Reid,
I liked your bumble bee hive analogy - - it reminded me of this: Flight Of The Bumble Planes.
"what does that have to do with anything", you might ask? well, it only serves to point out that 911 should have been investigated just a little bit more thoroughly before being blamed on those evil islamo-fascists that you seem so worried about.

#99
Derrick,
Christmas is capitalized.

From: Think Progress

The Rendon Group: Proof The Administration Manipulated Intelligence
From “ìaddam Hussein's Development of Weapons of Mass Destruction [White House website]:

In 2001, an Iraqi defector, Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri, said he had visited twenty secret facilities for chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. Mr. Saeed said Iraq used companies to purchase equipment with the blessing of the United Nations - and then secretly used the equipment for their weapons programs.

None of al-Haideri's claims were true. Today's Rolling Stone reveals that the administration's use of al-Haideri's lies to justify the Iraq war were the product of a clandestine operation that had been set up and funded by the CIA and the Pentagon for the express purpose of selling a war.
At the center of this operation was John Rendon and The Rendon Group, a controversial, secretive firm that has been criticized as ineffective and too expensive, paid more than $56 million by the government since the 9/11 attacks. (Taxpayers are paying Rendon himself $311.26/hour.)

The Rendon Group personally set up the Iraqi National Congress and helped install Ahmad Chalabi as leader, whose main goal, pressure the United States to attack Iraq and overthrow Saddam Hussein. Rendon helped facilitate. Pentagon documents show that Rendon has the highest level of government clearance (above Top Secret), which helped it with its INC work worldwide media blitz designed to turn Hussein into the greatest threat to world peace.
While the White House continues to insist it did not manipulate intelligence before the Iraq war, it sure seems that it hired John Rendon and his group to do just that.
------------
Like everything else, it's all in the marketing! saddam had to be stopped, not because he was a tyrant, God knows there are lot's of those out there, but because he was building an Iraqi infrastructure that would compete with Israel and other middle east interests, and we couldn't have that. Besides, there was also that pipeline issue.

Todays Democracy Now! includes interview with James Bamford.

OK, you all want cumbiya, ok, lets dont talk about whether going into Iraq was necessary, as we disagree.

The deficits are too high (that is shameful by the Republicans!!), the southern border is not being control (tantamount to treason by the Bush Administration). So, I am not locked into the GOP, and can find plenty of faults. Any agreements here????

'Peace Mom' Sheehan to Release Book

By ANGELA K. BROWN
The Associated Press
Saturday, November 19, 2005; 6:28 PM

FORT WORTH, Texas -- After spending scorching August days with hundreds of war protesters at her makeshift camp near President Bush's Crawford ranch, Cindy Sheehan slipped away each night to her tent or RV for a few quiet moments on her laptop.

The words came easily as she opined about the war, U.S. leaders, her critics, her supporters. And the tears started to flow no matter how many times she wrote about her 24-year-old soldier son Casey, who died in Iraq last year.

"I miss him more every day. It seems the void in my life grows as time goes on, and I realize I am never going to see him again or hear his voice," Sheehan wrote. "I knew he was going to be a great man. I just had no idea how great he was going to be or how much it was going to hurt me."

Now those journal entries are in her book, "Not One More Mother's Child," to be released Wednesday. The paperback also contains some of her speeches to peace groups earlier this year, letters to politicians and writings since leaving Crawford.

*****end of clip*****

I will buy a copy. I bet it sells like hotcakes!

HA!

capt

I guess David Cornhole, like all his regular groupies(Saladin, Hajji, Jeanne, Capt Kirk, James Wa Wa, Alan) don't really care about the troops being blown-up by Zarquawis henchmen- if it's going to help Bush. You all would rather see our troops die, than give Bush any credit for winning the war on terror. What is wrong with you people? Are you so blind by hatred for this war that your willing to risk our childrens lives to make Bush look bad? Your sicko wack jobs-Idon't care if I am hurting your feelings Saladin with mean words or not- the truth hurts.

Derrick, what is your purpose here? Why do you care about what we may agree or disaree with regarding your opinions? Most bush supporters consider us America hating communists. What's up with you?

Fools and idiots cannot hurt my feelings. You are the perfect example of people I ignore.

Manifest Destiny is much too modern an idea for Derrick. I think he's waiting for the new Crusades.

Ivory Bill: Do you participate over at D-Kos under a similar name?

The truth hurts??

Baf and DMR feel no pain.

Jeanne, thanks for the grammar tip, (I was an enganeer for too many years).

They would not take me, and even if they did, with my tech and law knowledge, I would probably negotiate weapon contract and not front line duty.

But, my 20 yo boy, is in Qutar now, he is part of the medical corps, maintaining med equipement. I hope the fighting in Iraq stops soon.

Time to talk: US engages the Taliban

By Syed Saleem Shahzad

KARACHI - Despite deposing the Taliban regime in Afghanistan in quick time at the end of 2001, the United States has not been able to rid the country of the Islamic hardliners, who four years later lead an Afghan resistance that shows no signs of abating, let alone buckling.

US efforts to combat the Taliban include outright military action (there are 18,000 US troops in the country, in addition to 12,000 members of North Atlantic Treaty Organization in the International Security Assistance Force), and attempts to embrace "good" Taliban.

And now, most significantly, come efforts to deal directly with the real "problem" - Taliban leader Mullah Omar, the only person with the ability to influence decisions of import related to the Taliban and their future activities in the country.

Reports emerged in the Pakistani media at the weekend that the US had contacted the Taliban leadership with the aim of establishing a truce in Afghanistan. The reported linkman is a Pakistani, Javed Ibrahim Paracha, but he has denied the story, saying he had never met any US officials, only US businessmen.

There is more to this story, though, according to information acquired by Asia Times Online.

In fact, the latest peace initiative was started a few months ago when the US realized, finally, that it simply was not making significant progress in stabilizing Afghanistan, despite the relatively successful conclusion of presidential and parliamentary elections.

*****end of clip*****

I would expect the jingoistic jumping beans to storm the WH or at least a few screamers in echo chambers go apoplectic.

I am still wait to hear our current military leaders called "Michael Moore" leftist and defeatists for drafting plans to re-deploy our troops out of Iraq.

No integrity, if you do not stand for anything you do not stand for anything.

capt

General Smedley Butler, a man who was the most decorated soldier in an American uniform at the time, who was the commander of the Marine Corps school, has this to say about war in general;

Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its finger men to point out enemies, its muscle men to destroy enemies, its brain men to plan war preparations, and a big Boss, Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
-----------
I've never thanked Anderson Petition for his contributions, so I want to now.

Robert Schwartz

I feel pain, I feel the pain of our brave men and women in uniform, who proudly serve their country and have to read all the anti-military, anti-American hate that comes from the left. If you really hate America so bad then why don't you do us a favor and move your cowardly ass to Canada- who knows you might even make some friends there.

"Manifest Destiny is much too modern an idea for Derrick. I think he's waiting for the new Crusades."

Of course, that presupposes that we are in Iraq to create the 51st state, or take their oil, both of which I reject. The Manifest Destiny expansion to the west coast does not exactly applies, now does it? This is a case where a far lefty is trying to make a 19th prospensity for expansion to be the same as the war on terror. The war on terror is primarly a forward defensive war, whereas the expansion west was filling in a vacuum, save only the native americans. I find that a difficult leap to make, BUT SOUNDS good to all the bush haters.

No Baf, Robert should stay. We need all views, both left and right, to make good decisions. I want all the lefties slamming the right administration, because, occasionally, and rarely, they do come up with good ideas, and concerns, and function as a watch-dog. I dont want gunslinger Bush going off willy-nilly, but only under controlled feedback. The left must speak up at all times, so their ideas can be fed into the political discussion, even though most of it should be rejected.

"Mom? this is Mark Bingham."

#58 Robert Schwartz -- regarding that Bamford article you linked: Bamford's ending paragraphs are only the tip of the iceberg -- but they are indicative of a scary mindset:

"He said the embedded idea was great," says an Air Force colonel who attended the talk. "It worked as they had found in the test. It was the war version of reality television, and for the most part they did not lose control of the story." But Rendon also cautioned that individual news organizations were often able to "take control of the story," shaping the news before the Pentagon asserted its spin on the day's events.

"We lost control of the context," Rendon warned. "That has to be fixed for the next war."

Losing the Fear Factor

How The Bush Administration Got Spooked

By Tom Engelhardt

How stunningly in recent weeks the landscape has altered -- almost like your basic hurricane sweeping through some unprotected and unprepared city. Now, to their amazement, Bush administration officials find themselves thrust through the equivalent of a Star-Trekkian wormhole into an anti-universe where everything that once worked for them seems to work against them. As always, in the face of domestic challenge, they have responded by attacking -- a tactic that was effective for years. The President, Vice President, National Security Adviser, and others have ramped up their assaults, functionally accusing Democratic critics of little short of treason -- of essentially undermining American forces in the field, if not offering aid and comfort to the enemy. On his recent trip to Asia, the President put it almost as bluntly as his Vice President did at home: "As our troops fight a ruthless enemy determined to destroy our way of life, they deserve to know that their elected leaders who voted to send them into war continue to stand behind them." The Democrats were, he said over and over, "irresponsible" in their attacks. Dick Cheney called them spineless "opportunists" peddling dishonestly for political advantage.

*****end of clip*****

The piece is published all over but a "do not miss" if you have not seen it yet.

capt